Daniel Laprès (‘72) has published some 20 articles on Chinese law and business in journals and magazines in North America, Europe and Asia. The Sir James Dunn Law Library was very appreciative to receive a version of his book Business Law in China that is now part of the library collection. His latest article entitled “The Role of Foreign Lawyers in Arbitration Proceedings in the PRC” was published by the International Business Law Review in its June 2010 issue. In 2005, he became the first foreign lawyer to integrate a Chinese firm as Special Counsel, and he was also the first French lawyer to be cited in the China section of the The Asia Pacific Legal 500. In 2008, he was appointed to the list of foreign arbitrators of the China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission (CIETAC). Currently he is “Of counsel” to Kunlun Law Firm which has offices in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Daniel kindly consented to speak to Hearsay and share some of his experiences and impressions of China today.
Hearsay: Daniel, perhaps we might begin if you give us a brief re-cap on your early involvement with China.
Daniel Laprès: My immersion in the Chinese environment began in 1975 when I moved to Hong Kong to join the first foreign law firm to open an office in Asia. In the People’s Republic of China (PRC), the Cultural Revolution was just winding down and the country remained mired in autarchy and poverty despite the considerable progress since the Revolution in 1949. The legal profession was practically nonexistent in the PRC and foreign lawyers would only be issued visas to travel to the mainland for business reasons.
H: You left Hong Kong in 1976 to move to Paris. Why did you learn Chinese and continue your business and professional activities in the China region?
DL: Rubbing up against China at that time might be analogized to the ant scurrying up the elephant’s leg: it’s big, but you’re not sure how big or even what the total form is but you’re drawn to investigate further. Even then Hong Kong was a major metropolis and all East Asia was booming. During the 1980s, I maintained a trading company in Hong Kong and sourced and wholesaled goods in Hong Kong.
In 1989, I became involved in assisting refugees from the Tiananmen Square movement establish themselves in France. Several of the leaders lived in my apartment for a while and we had some interesting discussions. One point, which might surprise a lot of Western observers, was made systematically by those young people, and is still maintained by those with whom I am still in contact; they support the PRC Government rejection of Tibetan secession. Altogether, it was a very exciting time!
In 1995, after admission to the Paris Bar, I renewed my interest in Chinese law and two years later the International Chamber of Commerce published Business Law in China, a book that I co-edited and co-authored with Zhang Yuejiao, currently a member of the Appeal Board of the World Trade Organization (WTO). (A second, electronic edition was published in 2008.)
H: Is it fair to say that your China connection also goes beyond the mere professional?
DL: Well, yes, it’s also a family affair. In 1990 I married Shen Suhua, a native of Beijing, in Paris. That’s where we have lived and raised our two daughters. The eldest, Mae, is 18 years old; she served as a volunteer during the Olympics in Beijing in 2008, and worked as a translator (French, English and Mandarin) for the media. This July she modeled for the inaugural issue of Harpers’ Bazaar in China. Our second daughter, Lena, is 15 years old. She also speaks the three languages and is in high school in Paris. This past summer she appeared as a dancer in a movie made for Chinese television.
H: On your website you have inter alia references about your pro bono work for Chinese Christians seeking asylum in France. Many in the West regard China’s record on human rights to be dismal, particularly with regard to freedom of religion and expression. Would you share that view?
DL: There is a lot of misunderstanding on the matter of thought control in China. In private one hears lots of criticism of the government. The idea that the PRC internet is protected by firewalls is belied by the actual possibility for any high school student to figure out a way around it. Some issues of great social consequence are regularly debated openly and on TV: environmental protection, protection against food and hygiene risks, transportation systems and catastrophes, to name a few. One indication of how China is evolving is that the local Chinese Catholic church in Paris nowadays encounters far fewer sincere underground Catholics who have suffered persecution on the mainland. So there does seem to be greater tolerance by the authorities of religious expression.
H: That sounds almost too good to be true.
DL: I am an inveterate optimist—but China’s recent history has shown that optimism is the right side of the trend.
H: Can you give us any examples from this recent history?
DL: The situation, as I see it, is constantly evolving and I think in the right direction overall, so there is good reason to be optimistic about the prospects for increased freedom of speech and of expression in the PRC. There are gay communities in Shanghai and Beijing and other major cities. There are faithful of all religions, and members of minority political parties, who have reached the highest posts in the PRC’s administration, including in its legal branches: the Judiciary and the Procuratorate—which is loosely the national agency for criminal investigation and prosecution. Believers in Buddhism can be encountered in every walk of life, including within the Communist Party, and the Christian religions are thriving in the rural communities. It’s worth remembering that in the Maoist tradition, religion is only a “minor contradiction” and in the Constitution religion is neither encouraged nor prohibited. The rush up the scale of values to reach moral discussion has been accomplished for large numbers of well-off Chinese who conclude that there is more to life than material gain.
H: Are you therefore predicting a liberal democratic future?
DL: Yes, globalization will continue to challenge both traditional Chinese values and the values of the Communist Party. The current dispersion of economic power, even if at the moment it mainly exists within an oligarchy constituted of the family and friends of the rulers, will only fuel and sustain ambitions for the exercise of political influence. Western style democracy is not much more distant than the first secession of any of the currents agitating the Communist Party.
H: Could you elaborate a bit more on that last point?
DL: If you mean my reference to a liberal democracy being no further away than the first secession of a splinter group within the Communist Party, I am going beyond a mere prediction of the instauration one day of a liberal democracy by imagining how it will come about. Perhaps it will be another mass movement of the youth as during the Tiananmen Square demonstration, a workers’ revolt as in Poland, or a dislocation of the Republic as in the Soviet Union. My own thought— reflecting those of at least some of my Chinese friends—is that the currents in the Communist Party will become more assertive, supported by contending factions within the widening economic oligarchy. Eventually one or more factions will officially secede from the Party. The PRC already has an elective system. What’s missing is a strong opposition party. My prediction is that such a strong opposition will arise gradually within the Party, and later without, at which point there would be a decent model of liberal democracy.
H: You paint a pretty rosy picture.
DL: Maybe, but at the same time I don’t deny that in China today the golden rules are to avoid threats to the unity of the Chinese State, and those to the dominance of the Communist Party. From my viewpoint, that is already too restrictive an environment. Also, as a lawyer I must decry the exercise of licensing powers to silence professionals who defend in the normal course of their practice controversial cases, such as those involving the defense of Christians before the Chinese courts.
But, I also find it bothersome when some people argue that China is endemically corrupt—when Westerners excuse their own predilection for corruption with the glib: “Everybody does it so we must keep up—when in Rome, etc. etc.” The much-commented case involving Rio Tinto and an Australian (ethnic Chinese) executive ought to serve notice that the Chinese authorities will fight corruption wherever they can find it—not every time, because no one could pretend the system to be perfect—but increasingly often.
H: What are the greatest risks facing today’s China?
DL: In economic terms, the greatest risks are posed by the national banking system’s exposure to the overbuilt real estate sector, which is vulnerable to interest rate increases. In political terms, the danger arises mostly from the Western frontier and the Muslim part of China as a part of the general movement of radical Islam.
H: To follow up on that last point, Daniel, are you saying that crackdowns we read about on Chinese Muslims are occurring out of a fear that they may have links with Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other groups connected to organized jihadist activities?
DL: The first observation I would make is that there needs to be a distinction drawn between Chinese Muslims and ethnic minority Muslims (such as the hui, wei - Uyghur - and the kazak minorities). Xinjiang in the northwestern region is China’s largest province-level territory and corresponds to one-sixth of the country’s total territory; but only some 20 million people live there (about 1.6 per cent of China’s total population). Xinjiang has the country’s longest border, which it shares with Mongolia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kirghiziatan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. The vast majority of China’s 20 million Muslims live in Xinjiang. The danger for dislocation of the PRC would, in my opinion, come even more from Xinjiang than from Tibet. In Xinjiang, the Chinese, including the Chinese Muslims, seem to enjoy better living conditions and have better prospects than the minority peoples. Based on my own personal observations, any resentment that people generally in Xinjiang might have manifested toward any neglect or disdain from the central authorities is greatly exacerbated among the ethnic minorities, almost all Muslims—often nomadic—and clearly disadvantaged socially.
H: You thus see any real danger to the PRC as coming from these ethnic minority groups?
DL: Yes, while hastening to add that I do believe the worst will be avoided because the Chinese economy is being managed in such a way as to draw even the poorest up—even if this results from a cascading down of what progress is afforded generally—better communications, education, housing and other social services. I see a tendency of the youth in the minority peoples to integrate the sedentary way of life, to become educated and to adopt the global styles of living.
H: This might lead us to ask about your own trip to Xinjiang this past August. Did you form any impressions that would have a bearing on this discussion?
DL: Well, the trip certainly brought home that globalization has penetrated throughout the territory even into its frontier hinterlands, including Xinjiang, where one can readily encounter a family of Mongolian nomads dancing to recordings of Straussian waltzes, or be invited to dine with them in their “yurt” under a glowing reprint of the Mona Lisa. In the capital city of Urumqi the principal Mosque juxtaposes a building of identical architectural inspiration, the ground floor of which is occupied by outlets of Kentucky Fried Chicken and a McDonald’s, and on the roof of which flies the flag of the PRC. In Xinjiang, one point I tried to verify was the local policy toward the wearing of veils and of bourkas (full body veils leaving only the eyes apparent) by local women. The issue evokes different treatments from one country to another, and a law in France that is to prohibit the wearing of bourkas in public places has drawn the ire of Muslims in numerous countries. But in Xinjiang, it seems that young Muslim girls can attend public school wearing veils, though one would not wear a veil while exercising a public function, such as teaching in school or working in a hospital. So the policy in Xinjiang is actually more liberal than that applied in France.
H: Based on your observations and experience over the last 35 years, what do you see as the long-term outlook for China?
DL: Rising general wealth, further integration into the global economy, unrelented urbanization, at least partial solutions to the environmental challenges, gradual implementation of Western-style democracy, increased personal freedom, and peaceful international relations making possible an amicable solution to the Taiwan issue.
H: Off-camera, so to speak, you were telling me about how you spent Sunday, August 22, as a microcosm of you trip to the Chinese frontier and of the New China.
DL: After a 13-drive the day before from Urumqi in Xinjiang, the last five hours at night bumping and reeling in our mini-bus along a road under construction, we had been very relieved to reach our hotel in Yining (with a population 170,000, a small city of Chinese standards) near the border with Kazakhstan. After an early-morning jog through the deserted streets, crossing the occasional local jogger with smiles of mutual encouragement, I joined my four Chinese friends for breakfast. All were quite upset that the breakfast buffet offered no decent « han » food, i.e. Chinese food, and instead they found a festoon of « hui zu » food, i.e. prepared according to the Muslim traditions.
As our bus was leaving the city at around 10 a.m. a policeman with a sweep of his arm pulled our van over to the side. We were instructed to provide our IDs. In no time, the only foreigner on the bus was invited into the Police Station, where we were informed that a few days before there had been a suicide attack in Aksu about a day's drive away and an order had been issued that no foreigners could enter the region of our destination without a special permit. That permit could not be obtained that day, as it was Sunday, and the permit-issuing office was closed. It took two hours of intense negotiating, but we left the office with a permit and we resumed our journey. About noon, we came across another policeman, who again waived us off the road, this time down a dirt road in the countryside. It was 90° in the shade. Quickly, other travelers along the road were waylaid onto the side-road. As the cars, and a bus full of local commuters, abandoned their vehicles to find some shade, little groups formed and conversations were started and quickly laughter erupted. This is when I met young Wang, a fourteen-year old « wei zu » or Uyghur, who upon learning that I was Canadian launched into enthusiastic praise of Norman Bethune! After the two-hour suspension of traffic imposed to allow some Party officials from Beijing on tour to pass unhindered along the highway, we all got back on the route toward the plateau where the mostly Kazak nomads tend their herds at this time of year. There, our day ended with a cup of mare’s milk in a Mongolian-style yurt as the sun sent over the Western mountains.
During the hour-long bus ride through the mountains back to the hotel, I overheard a conversation between two Chinese people, one from Shanghai and the other from Canton, commenting on their respective trips, during which they regretted that civilization had reached so far that, even in these hinterlands, they could no longer find any « authentic » ethnic environments unspoiled by materialism and globalisation. As I was the only foreigner seen in days, and considering the physical and mental suffering to get to this point deserving of some reward, I decided to declare myself satisfied with the day’s experience.
H: That gives us a glimmer of the encroachments of modernity. Are signs of the “Old China” still quite apparent?
DL: As an example, one day last month while watching local TV, I came upon a program of televised justice – a Chinese “Day in Court”. It turned out that the case was brought by a mother against her children for their failure to take care of her according to their obligations under Chinese law. Upon checking the sources, it is indeed the case that children do bear such an obligation, and what might be even more surprising to a Western observer - at least it was to this one - is that the burden is unequally borne, mostly by the son where there are several children of both sexes. But the stress on the traditional family in contemporary China is enormous. The child-policy seems to be unraveling as ever more households brave the prohibition, including Chinese who go overseas to give birth, rich Chinese who can pay the fines, and the poor who raise their excess children clandestinely. Divorce is now common and very easy to obtain by mutual consent. According to one expert with whom I spoke, as many as 50% of wives are battered. A strain of Confucianist ethics in government and business would be a welcome reappearance.
H: Have you any tips for the reader who might be considering a move to China for themselves or their kids?
DL: Canadians should know that we are a treasured people in China. There is no Chinese of TV age who is not familiar with Canada’s own “Da Shan” – the Big Mountain – more precisely Mark Roswell, who has parlayed his command of Chinese and his telegenic aptitudes into a beloved position in the hearts of a Chinese audience subjugated by command of this "da bi zi" ("long nose" for foreigner) of their language and delighted by his ability to improvise Chinese humor.
More importantly still, every Chinese schoolchild learns that one our citizens, Norman Bethune, is considered a hero of the Revolution of 1949 for his sacrifice in providing medical attention to the victims among the Revolutionary Army.
For the young people, you’ve got to learn Chinese as well as overseas Chinese students master our own languages. That won’t be easy because learning Chinese is excruciatingly difficult at first. But after a certain stage, it becomes a never-ending well of subtlety and differentiation – every day brings new discoveries. The Chinese themselves don’t make it especially easy for us because they are generally better in English than we are in Chinese, and they are as eager to improve their foreign language skills as we are to learn Chinese. They get away with a lot of criticism, which can be discouraging, about our inability to master the tones, but plenty of Chinese, especially outside the North, have difficulty speaking « biaozhun » mandarin, and even have difficulties finding jobs on that account.
I know a lot of people think of the Chinese, and of Asians generally, as being more « formal » and less « direct » than we are supposed to be in the West. My impression is altogether different. The Chinese are the world’s most eager and the world’s best hosts. They love parties at which everyone kicks over in general jubilation. The generosity of the Chinese toward any foreigner that comes within invitation range is such that Westerners have actually become the brunt of popular jokes for their capacity to « mooch » off their Chinese hosts while being in complete conformity with Chinese manners. If a foreigner wants to seize an opportunity to manifest his gratitude, one can do it subtly by battling (because that is probably what it will take) to sit at the place at the table where the highest standing napkin has been mounted. The Chinese, especially in the North, love drinking « bai jiu », often with a sharpness of taste akin to pure alcohol. Of course, one can refuse, and should if any embarrassment might follow. At the table, don’t drink alone, each time one sips on his/her glass, one should toast with another reveler. You don’t really have to « gan bei » – « bottoms up » each time – especially as the Chinese guests are likely to each want in turn to toast with the outnumbered foreigner! As for a tip on assuming the duty of being as good a guest (in Chinese terms) as is the host, there is a Chinese saying about the Cantonese, who are considered to have the most refined cuisine, that at dinner they will eat anything with four legs, other than the table. So eat first, and ask questions later – when I did that in Inner Mongolia I ended up eating something, which wasn’t actually bad in all its sauces, with which I impress even my Chinese friends: namely, wolf – which has a spiritual connotation for the Mongolians who lay their dead to rest on the plains.